It's mere hours until the Survivor finale, and the only unresolved question seems to be whether Tyson will make good on his promise to throw the wildest party we've ever seen; still, we can expect to see some fireworks before the check is signed. How vicious is the jury going to be this time? Why is Ciera cruelly violating Jeff's preconceptions by actually winning a challenge? And just how deep did Jeff have to dig to get that installed as a 'classic Survivor phrase'? We cover this and more on an eleventh-hour episode, available below, here, or on iTunes here.
I know that you have a lot of hardcore fans who listen but that few comments so i leave you this comment to thank you for all your podcast coverage of the season, I'm listening to this one just before the finale to get me ready. And thanks for all you new retropectives too i really enjoy those podcast.
ReplyDeleteThanks so much! Glad you enjoy the show.
DeleteIn your finale discussion podcast you guys should address the fact that in all 5 of the seasons that were either full returnee or half returnee, this was the first one won by someone that was a target coming into the season. Furthermore, post season interviews have mentioned how Tyson was the number 1 target coming into the season. Tyson was also left out of most of the preseason alliances, and unlike Cochran, had to overcome them rather than benefit from them.
ReplyDeleteI also think this was one of the most difficult seasons in recent years. A roster of returnees that played hard and newbies that came to play as well.
All in all I think Tyson's win stands up there in the top half of winners for sure. It's hard to rank winners up there because lots of them played great games and are on roughly the same level, but Tyson's win was impressive from a social and strategic perspective for sure.
I hope you guys drop the 'Hayden was a better player in season 27' nonsense because it's pretty silly and there really is no real argument you can make for it. The guy got outplayed at final 7 and was played by Tyson at final 8 into trusting him and not voting him out. Signed, sealed, delivered.
Also, the major thing being held against him is that he was down 4-3 at final 7 in terms of newbies and returnees, and I think voting out Laura M instead of Caleb or Hayden at final 8 might have been his one mistake, but I think Tyson would have faced a target regardless, ESPECIALLY if he had kept Aras at the merge like you guys seem to suggest (you guys ignore the fact that he would have been effectively killing his own game had he empowered Aras/Vytas/Tina/Katie at that point and cut off his own supply of allies).
Anyways, I'm glad I found this podcast this season and I'll keep listening for sure. Looking forward to season 28 where you guys don't have your own preconceived agendas to enforce.
I think they both played impeccable social games, I think where Dom and Colin give Hayden the edge is the strategic angle. I think it is highly arguable that Katie should not have been left in the game so long, as she had no real incentive to ever work with Tyson. I think it is also arguable that Laura should have been the merge boot, or been around longer than she actually was. She was another won that would have been an easy boot to sell, and was only going to work with Tyson if he already had Ciera, meaning Laura would be an unneeded vote. It is incredibly arguable that Tyson should not have used the HII at F7, although the fact that he immediately found the next idol mitigates that. It blew my mind (well not really because it was being forecasted for a while) that Tyson didn't play his HII at F6 and instead decided it would be wise to draw a rock.
ReplyDeleteYes, Tyson did get the better of Hayden at the F8-F7 rounds, but his strategic game was so mistake-filled that it is very hard to give Tyson full credit for his win.
In regards to calling Tyson "the number 1 target pre-game", I think a lot of that is hindsight-based. I find it hard to believe people would be worried about him than someone like Aras, who'd been a physical, social, and somewhat strategic threat in his first time out, and was a previous winner. I also think Tyson's tribe draw worked out incredibly well to his advantage, as the alliance of 5 almost built itself. On the original Galang tribe of 9 after the morning 1 votes, you can immediately count out Laura B, because she's incredibly socially and strategically inept. Colton is immediately out for playing too hard. Kat is on the outs for being a bit of an airhead and being much more immature than everybody else. That only leaves Laura M as a possibility to be in that alliance of 5 instead of Tyson. Both are good in challenges (although Laura was probably better, especially when Tyson had the injury), so the only real reason why Laura M was voted out over Tyson was that she was seen as a bigger threat. Inside of that alliance of 5, I think the circumstances of their loved ones (of which Tyson had no control) helped Tyson build the alliances he build. Plus, it seems incredibly easy to target the winners first.
I think Hayden had a much tougher tribe draw. His tribe was so physically fit that his strength wasn't that valuable. He had played and won Big Brother when nobody else on his tribe had been a contestant on a reality show. He had Vytas and Brad on his tribe, who are more controlling types. If they wanted Hayden gone, he probably would have been gone. The fact that Hayden did what he did was pretty damn good from his position.
I feel like now you're just parroting empty points from the podcast.
DeleteI have no idea how you continue to think Laura would have made sense as the merge boot. How in the hell does that make sense and what is Tyson's path to the win from there? Why should he have just done what Aras and Vytas wanted and helped them more? He would have pretty much only been left with Gervase had he done that. Ciera would have dropped him, and Hayden and Caleb would have veered back to Vytas. Also, he had no reason to vote Laura out, Ciera trusted him fully which meant Laura did too.
'Katie should have not been left in so long'
When exactly did you want her voted out? Aras/Vytas/Tina made complete sense as the first three boots of the merge - if Tyson wasn't going to go along with Aras and vote Laura out, it made sense to vote Aras out and then his next biggest threats in Vytas and Tina. That brings us to Final 8, where one can argue that maybe Tyson should have voted out Hayden or Caleb there instead of Laura, but I don't see the merit in voting Katie out there rather than Hayden or Caleb. Another empty point.
You make these statements that don't actually go anywhere. Again, I'm not sure what you think Tyson's path to the win was had he gone with Aras at the merge and just waited to get voted out.
Also, your arguments for Hayden being the best player are laughable. you're essentially saying 'But...but...but... if people had just done what he said he would have won, it's not fair!!!!'
That's what the whole point of the game is! If you don't get people to work with you at right times of the game then you won't win. Hayden waited too long to make his move, while Tyson made his move against Aras at the perfect time. That in itself was the game.
Hayden changing his mind at final 8 and deciding to vote out Laura instead of Tyson is right up there with any of Tyson's mistakes you point to, yet you Hayden stans completely ignore it.
ReplyDeleteDifference is Tyson had more social connections and had the leeway to overcome a mistake while Hayden didn't once he missed his chance.
I'm actually not even a huge Tyson fan, but the complete lack of logic blows my mind.
Just wondering if anyone has enjoyed how the "enjoying the sunrise on a mountain" shot became a motif for death, at least in the game? Sure wrecked some early season boats of a winner edit ;-)
ReplyDelete